An interview with Cardinal Pierbattista Pizzaballa conducted by the Head of the Haifa Laboratory for Religious Studies, Prof. Uriel Simonsohn

Prof. Simonsohn: Your Eminence. I understand that you are spending this week in Haifa. Is this a regular visit in your annual calendar? Or is there a special reason for it at this time?

Cardinal Pizzaballa: No, it’s not a regular visit. It’s what we call in Catholic work a pastoral visit. The bishop has the duty to visit every parish at least every five years. So this is the context. It’s a major visit for a few days to meet all the different realities of the community, other realities connected with the community, a kind of official visit, but also a moment of reflection about the life of the community in this context, also for the bishop to understand how things are going, what is necessary to improve, to change if necessary.

Prof. Simonsohn: As can be expected, an interview with the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem on matters pertaining to Middle Eastern politics must begin concerning October 7 and its aftermath. How have these events affected your communities?

Cardinal Pizzaballa: I think the impact is not different from other communities. The impact was tremendous in all the different aspects, technological, emotional, and economic. No one expected such a thing, not what happened on 7 October in Southern Israel, and not also what happened after, that is what is going on in Gaza right now. Of course, there are differences in the Christian community. We have Christians in Gaza, the West Bank, in Israel… And there are differences within according to the place where you’re living, we have the Arab Christians and we have foreign workers, as well as Christians who are serving in the army. Most of those who are affected are in Gaza. They were 1017 before the war, now they are about 600 something. Some died, some managed to leave. So, they are affected most because they lost everything. They are now living all together in the church compound. In the West Bank, the situation is different. The emotional impact is there but also the economic consequences. Many were working in Israel, but now they lost permits. There are no pilgrims. So Christians working in the tourist activities are very heavily affected. Those in Israel, from the economic aspect, their situation is better, but the emotional tension, and the mistrust between the Jewish community and other communities is very high.

Prof. Simonsohn: Has the church undertaken a particular role under these circumstances?

Cardinal Pizzaballa: We must work on different levels, and of course, there are differences. Once again, in Gaza, we have to support them at every aspect. And so we have to coordinate with all those relevant to the territory of Gaza to preserve the peace of the community as much as possible. Also to look for sources, food, job opportunities, and what is necessary for their living because the situation is dramatic. But we must work also internally. There are many questions about how to live in this situation, and how to deal with the hatred that has flooded all of us in the situation. Also, there are many questions about the attitude of the church – how to talk about these situations. We also must work with governments, as well as other political authorities, discreetly, to see if it’s possible to help.

Prof. Simonsohn: We’ll get to this point in a moment, but I just want to focus once again on your communities. You’ve visited recently the Gaza Strip, right? Do your efforts also include humanitarian aid?

Cardinal Pizzaballa: Definitely. We support also the humanitarian aspect, even at recent months. But now, we thought and decided that we need to organize something more systematic not to focus only on emergencies. Of course, we need to work in coordination with other organizations, in this case, Knights of Malta, and others, like Caritas Internationalis, and so on. Caritas is the humanitarian branch of the church. Some of the problems now is the distribution of food, as well as the necessity of a field hospital.

Prof. Simonsohn: initiated by the church?

Cardinal Pizzaballa: Yes. Of course, we cannot do everything alone; we must do this in partnership with others. When I visited Gaza, the highest request was a school. The schools were all closed, of course, due to the situation. The children lost one year. We cannot keep them abandoned like this.

Prof. Simonsohn: So, you will be able to build a school?

Cardinal Pizzaballa: I hope. To build a school is impossible in a few months, but at least we’ll have something that will allow students and teachers to have a school working.

Prof. Simonsohn: We spoke about the humanitarian aid on the part of the church. Let’s talk more on the broader side of the picture. Is the church involved in efforts to bring the war to an end?

Cardinal Pizzaballa: The church must do all that is possible to help all those involved. The role of the church is not to mediate. The mediation in this context is very complicated. But I think, it has to do all that is possible to facilitate mediation, to remove obstacles, and to talk, of course. To achieve this, we have to talk with all the parties involved, and also the international community, the government, political authorities, and so on.

Prof. Simonsohn: Do you think that in the future the church can play a role in bringing about peace to the region?

Cardinal Pizzaballa: First, I think that the church has had an important role in the past. The Christians are important, but we are a minority here, we cannot presume to work alone and be the one who brings solutions. But we are part of this mosaic or this fabric of society. We have to make our contribution. I think our contribution has to be at a different level. First, to work at the grassroots level, to help in removing all these obstacles. You call them fences between different religious communities, which is part of the problem today. We live together, but we don’t know each other enough. So, in this respect, I think we must make our contribution, especially now through our institutions and schools. Second, the church must work also on the interreligious, interfaith level, not just locally, but also globally. Even if these do not bring immediate solutions, they will help to create the mentality. The conflicts here are mainly political, and we are not a political entity. But we should promote peaceful solutions to end conflicts. I prefer to work with other religious authorities to support politicians with the understanding of how to solve the conflict.

Prof. Simonsohn: This is going to be a bit of a delicate question. Are you aware of the criticisms directed toward the Vatican, both from the Israeli and Palestinian sides, whereby some Israelis argue for a hesitant tone in condemning Hamas and its actions, and some Palestinians call for a harsher stance toward Israel? How do you respond to this criticism?

Cardinal Pizzaballa: I am aware of this, of course, I also was involved myself; I was accused from both sides in the past, the present, a little less. I have to say, things are changing. I’m aware of this, but I must say that I had the impression that both sides wanted to engage the church in their narrative. The church has its narrative, its way of expressing things, which is in harmony with the attitude of the church. So the church has been very clear, and the Vatican has been very clear about what happened on the 7^th of October, condemning what happened. This is out of discussion, those who say that it was not enough, I mean, I respect them, of course, but their attitude is not correct. The condemnation is very clear. Without the discussion, the Pope doesn’t refrain from calling every Sunday the Angelus for the liberation of the hostages and also to end the war, the siege of Gaza, and so on. It’s repeating but it’s not using the same language expected by the two sides. I think this expectation is wrong.

Prof. Simonsohn: And what would you what is your message to the Palestinians in this context?

Cardinal Pizzaballa: The same. Palestinians want the church to condemn Israeli acts. The church has relations with Israel and wants to keep it. And so, it’s very important to be very clear, very honest, and express our total disagreement about what is going on in Gaza. But it’s important to keep the relations. We cannot talk about peace and be quiet about what peace includes and doesn’t exclude.

Prof. Simonsohn: This raises the question of alleged tension between the national identity of the Christian Palestinians within your See and the universal position of the Church, which includes Hebrew-speaking Catholics and others who might be less sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. How do you resolve this tension? On the one hand, a universal Church, on the other hand, a Patriarchate.

Cardinal Pizzaballa: You don’t resolve. These situations, tensions, different visions, and different attitudes are part of our identity. We have to live with them. We cannot pretend. We have to work for unity, we have to work to respect each other, but of course, there are different visions.

Prof. Simonsohn: Okay, and this brings me to the last and more specific question. A closer look at the Latin Patriarchate. Given that your two predecessors Patriarch Michel Sabbah who is a Palestinian and Patriarch Fuad Twal, a Jordanian, does the fact that you hail from an Italian background pose a problem, or at least reflect a measure of regression in terms of the relationship between the Jerusalem Patriarchate and its flock?

Cardinal Pizzaballa: No, it’s not a regression. The reasons behind some choices are not necessarily political but are sometimes necessary because of the specific context or/and a specific moment. And Jerusalem, in the past had Italians then had locals, now Italians. Once again, Italian. This doesn’t mean that in the future there cannot be another local. The motivations are always to specific contexts within the broader political visions. Of course, for some, the fact that the Patriarch is a foreigner can be a problem, but I mean, generally speaking, now, after all these things are more or less in peace.

Prof. Simonsohn: Are you optimistic?

Cardinal Pizzaballa: Optimistic is a very lay expression. I am religious, of course. I prefer to use the word “hope.” Hope is the daughter of faith. So, by faith, I think that God is leading the history. Of course, human beings can create disasters, but in the end, He will prevail.

Prof. Simonsohn: I wish to thank you once again for agreeing to speak with me. I believe many will find your message of profound importance and I’m glad that Nexus can serve as a platform for its dissemination.

Cardinal Pizzaballa: Thank you